- The 120,000 square foot casino opened in December 2008 and replaced the former location less than a mile away. Lone Butte offers 850 slot machines, 24 Las Vegas-style Blackjack and Pai Gow tables, a state-of-the-art 750-seat Bingo Hall, and a High Limit Gaming Area offering privacy and comfort for the high rollers.
- Indian tribes’ gaming win shifts landscape in Laughlin, Reno. The Gila River Indian Community operates three casinos in the Phoenix area, a resort hotel, an equestrian center, two golf.
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On a related note, here in Phoenix the Gila River casino's have a pai gow progressive jackpot that is around half a million. If you put a red chip on the light to bet the progressive ($1), the dealers will make the necessary change but will not put the $1 chip on the light for you, YOU must. The dealers are all convinced that the tribe would stiff the winner if they put the dollar on the light for you and gave you the $4 change: The way this same operation is handled in every other casino in the country. They are also quite sure that someone touching their cards before the four cards have been counted at the end of the deal would void the jackpot.
I used to be convinced that casino management operated on good faith but I am less and less convinced of that.
These are all valid points, but you said that a b&m casinos would never confiscate chips when backing off an AP, I was offering evidence to the contrary.
On a related note, here in Phoenix the Gila River casino's have a pai gow progressive jackpot that is around half a million. If you put a red chip on the light to bet the progressive ($1), the dealers will make the necessary change but will not put the $1 chip on the light for you, YOU must. The dealers are all convinced that the tribe would stiff the winner if they put the dollar on the light for you and gave you the $4 change: The way this same operation is handled in every other casino in the country. They are also quite sure that someone touching their cards before the four cards have been counted at the end of the deal would void the jackpot.
I used to be convinced that casino management operated on good faith but I am less and less convinced of that.
Dealers tell all sorts of stories. Doesn't mean they are true. I would doubt either scenario you mentioned would have any effect as neither would have effected the integrity of the hand or game.
ZCore13
I used to be convinced that casino management operated on good faith but I am less and less convinced of that.
It all depends on the game and security issues of the game.
At the Hard Rock Tampa, poker room has a royal flush jackpot.
Some girl hit it recently, she was so excited, she ran over to her boyfriend at another table with her 2 cards.
She was not paid. Cant leave the table with cards.
Its a gaming security issue.
I was playing pai gow with the fortune bonus, almost dropped a card on the floor.
Dealer said to be careful, if I hit the fortune but dropped a card on the floor, would not get paid.
It all depends on the game and security issues of the game.
At the Hard Rock Tampa, poker room has a royal flush jackpot.
Some girl hit it recently, she was so excited, she ran over to her boyfriend at another table with her 2 cards.
She was not paid. Cant leave the table with cards.
Its a gaming security issue.
I was playing pai gow with the fortune bonus, almost dropped a card on the floor.
Dealer said to be careful, if I hit the fortune but dropped a card on the floor, would not get paid.
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That's a terrible story, but that girl is a moron. As far as cards falling on the floor, as far as i know this is a standard in the industry, no?
I have seen many casinos that require the chips wagered to be contacted by the player him/herself before the hand is played. I know the hardrock stopped allowing players to cap others bets around the table, although i still see some dealers allowing it, because disputes arose to whose money it actually was etc.. Id imagine this applies to the example that was stated about 'the dealers think the tribe will screw someone over'
Dealers tell all sorts of stories. Doesn't mean they are true. I would doubt either scenario you mentioned would have any effect as neither would have effected the integrity of the hand or game.
ZCore13
Yes, dealers are often wrong and maybe the tribe would pay. I'm not so sure.
But even if they would pay, the management is bad: A) their dealers are telling their patrons that they may not get the progressive because of stupid BS procedure, and B) from a time/motion standpoint their dealers are costing them a lot of money with unnecessary and time wasting procedure.
Yes, dealers are often wrong and maybe the tribe would pay. I'm not so sure.
But even if they would pay, the management is bad: A) their dealers are telling their patrons that they may not get the progressive because of stupid BS procedure, and B) from a time/motion standpoint their dealers are costing them a lot of money with unnecessary and time wasting procedure.
Lots of that going on all over the place. I can't deny or defend most of it. It's actually part of my topic(s) when I speak or present about Table Games.
ZCore13
Gila River Casinos
Lots of that going on all over the place. I can't deny or defend most of it. It's actually part of my topic(s) when I speak or present about Table Games.
ZCore13
The one argument i can see coming from the dealer placing the wager for the client is similar to the issue i spoke about concerning the hardrock.
What would happen if the dealer places the wager for the client, hits the progressive and then says 'that $5 was a tip and I decided to convince the player, who agreed, to place the progressive for me in return for the other 4 dollars back'? as ridiculous as that may sound, do you believe, based on the other things you are saying about some dealers, that this situation could never arise? Needless to say, even if the proper thing happened an the player was paid, do you think any patron would ever come back and play at that casino? I dont..
I can understand if this is one reason for this procedure actually being in place.
Gila River Casino Shows
The one argument i can see coming from the dealer placing the wager for the client is similar to the issue i spoke about concerning the hardrock.
What would happen if the dealer places the wager for the client, hits the progressive and then says 'that $5 was a tip and I decided to convince the player, who agreed, to place the progressive for me in return for the other 4 dollars back'? as ridiculous as that may sound, do you believe, based on the other things you are saying about some dealers, that this situation could never arise? Needless to say, even if the proper thing happened an the player was paid, do you think any patron would ever come back and play at that casino? I dont..
I can understand if this is one reason for this procedure actually being in place.
I would say that that's not the case if they put their $5 on the betting spot first. The dealer is then making change and giving back the over back. I'm sure other places could define it however they want to though. But I would never avoid any type of hand or jackpot in table games or poker unless the integrity of the game was involved.
ZCore13
I would say that that's not the case if they put their $5 on the betting spot first. The dealer is then making change and giving back the over back. I'm sure other places could define it however they want to though. But I would never avoid any type of hand or jackpot in table games or poker unless the integrity of the game was involved.
ZCore13
Of course, just some hypos as to some possible reasoning..
I think you know what I was trying to say.
The one argument i can see coming from the dealer placing the wager for the client is similar to the issue i spoke about concerning the hardrock.
What would happen if the dealer places the wager for the client, hits the progressive and then says 'that $5 was a tip and I decided to convince the player, who agreed, to place the progressive for me in return for the other 4 dollars back'? as ridiculous as that may sound, do you believe, based on the other things you are saying about some dealers, that this situation could never arise? Needless to say, even if the proper thing happened an the player was paid, do you think any patron would ever come back and play at that casino? I dont..
I can understand if this is one reason for this procedure actually being in place.
I see the point you are making, but this would have to happen at an empty table so that no other player could witness the events. Also if the player has been placing the bet all night, places the red chip squarely on the light, and takes the $4 change, I don't see how anyone would believe the dealer. Furthermore, how does the procedure combat your cheating dealer? Couldn't the dealer say that they guy put his tip on the light even if the player handled the chip?
Finally, I would think that the 'tip' bet technically belongs to the player until he gives it to the dealer. Yes I know that rules are different for the tip bet (smaller minimum, no commission taken out at Bacc/ Pai Gow, etc) but I think if you made a tip bet and it won and you kept the money, they wouldn't have much grounds to make you give them the money. So even if I put a 'tip' on the light and kept the money, I don't think that the dealer would have much of a claim on the money.